Definition of Life, Part I: Dr. Don Clark gives us the commonly accepted scientific definition of life and discusses, along with Jim and David, how the scenario alters when issues of spirit and soul are added to the equation …
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Coming from a Mormon background I immediately picked up on you’re comment about the ‘spirit/soul’ being around before conception. This doctrine is a minefield because I don’t see any Biblical warrant for it and I see some real danger in speculation about what is not taught in scripture. The simple Bible doctrine says, “God gives the breath (spirit) and man’s inanimate ‘body’ (in this case a fertilized egg) become ‘alive’ (animate) and when God takes the spirit/soul the body becomes inanimate again, as the spirit/soul goes back to God.” Man can, and does, end (sinfully) the life of other human beings through abortion or murder but never outside the sovereign will of God. In other words, God’s overall design and plan prevails even ‘through’ the acts of sinful men–Think of Joseph’s brothers–Joseph said, “You meant it for evil but God meant it for good.” Preexistence of the spirit/soul, then, in not, in my mind a biblical or an historical doctrine of the church.
Good and useful thoughts, Kris. I think we are all on the same page with regard to God both seeing and governing past, present and future without regard to our human linear conception of time. It does seem to me that Scripture allows and even encourages speculation and that we learn from the process, hopefully under the tutelage of the Holy Spirit. I still see a case both for the preexistence of the spirit AND God’s foreknowledge of the individual accounting for Jeremiah’s claim. Why limit our thoughts? …both could be true.
Thanks for contributing to the discussion! I have forwarded your email to Dr. Don for his possible response.
Thanks Kris for your thoughtful comments. Clearly we need to look at scripture as a whole and not just one verse. As you pointed out God is outside of time, outside of this space-time continuum that we temporarily live in, our heaven or realm, if you will. So of course He knows the past, present and future, and knew us before we were born. He knows the plans He has for us, plans for good and not for destruction. That said, Genesis 2 tells us that God breathed the breath of life into Adam when he created him. This “pneuma”, this spirit caused man to come alive. Did Adam’s spirit exist before this point? We have no indication that it was. So I too am of the opinion that God created it on the spot like he does for all of us when we are conceived.
So what does the scripture in Jeremiah mean? I think you explained it well. He has foreknowledge of us before we are born simply because he is outside of time.
Thanks again for your thoughts.